Thrust 10 10.001 nygren richard 6/09/2009 11:35 Thrust 10 Replace the term "off-normal" with "transient." "Off-normal" will imply accident scenarios to some people outside fusion. 10.002 Baylor Larry 6/09/2009 11:41 Thrust 10 Is a new PMI test facility capable of handling tritium necessary or can deuterium be sufficient to understand retention in a ITER/DEMO divertor like environment? 10.003 hill david 6/09/2009 11:51 Thrust 10 are we ready to proceed with such a facility? Is there agreement as to what to build? 10.004 Hill David 6/09/2009 11:55 Thrust 10 Testing for compatibility in existing experiments would seem to be critical, but is given minimal attention in this thrust. 10.005 Whyte Dennis 6/09/2009 11:56 Thrust 10 Don: Nice job overall to motivate a more aggressive program in this area. Two main comments. The presentation implied that PISCES is the only test-stand facility we have in the US, and that we lack in areas of testing tritium, alpha damage and in-situ PMI diagnosis. I'll point out that we have TPE which is basically PISCES with tritium. Alpha damage and In-situ PMI using ion-beam analysis with a plasma present is available in the relatively new DIONISOS facility, the subject of invited talk at the last PSI conference. Both of these facilities have unique features in the worldwide PSI test stand area. I know you had limited time to present the US capabilities, but I think showing that we have a good base of US facilities and expertise to expand from actually makes this thrust more compelling. Secondly, it is necessary to emphasize the critical role that modeling has in this area. This enables "transfer" of the knowledge gained in the test-stands to the confinement world. 10.006 nygren richard 6/09/2009 12:03 Thrust 10 Suggestion - use "W fuzz" as an example where the surface conditions that we will see in ITER result drive changes in the surface morphology. Whether or not we expect to see W fuzz in a tokamak, the eperiments show that there will be a strong driving force to alter the surface significantly. 10.007 nygren richard 6/09/2009 12:03 Thrust 10 Suggestion - use "W fuzz" as an example where the surface conditions that we will see in ITER result drive changes in the surface morphology. Whether or not we expect to see W fuzz in a tokamak, the eperiments show that there will be a strong driving force to alter the surface significantly. 10.008 nygren richard 6/09/2009 12:09 Thrust 10 If we believe that actively-cooled internal components will be needed for RF systems and other ICs, then this should be more clearly stated and presents both an engineering challenge to met as well as a need for some restructuring in the internal coordination of the fusion program in that this also reenforces the need for stronger integration of the design, fabrication, testing and deployment path for PFCs and ICs. 10.009 nygren richard 6/09/2009 13:07 Thrust 10 Addendum to previous chit: The point, perhaps not clear before, is that the W fuzz cannot be discounted because one might not expect it to from in a tokamak. The driving force will be present due to the conditions and we can expect some type of rearrangement of the surface morphology that will likely be important in the erosion process and how the surface responds to transient heat loads. 10.010 Hill David 6/09/2009 13:09 Thrust 10 Seems like 10 and 11 both aim to develop solutions to the PFC issues, one looking at the materials and one looking at divertor configurations. Seems like ideal candidates for consolidation using definition of thrust: multi-faceted attack on an important issue for fusion. 10.011 Hill David 6/09/2009 13:10 Thrust 10 Seems like 10 and 11 both aim to develop solutions to the PFC issues, one looking at the materials and one looking at divertor configurations. Seems like ideal candidates for consolidation using definition of thrust: multi-faceted attack on an important issue for fusion. 10.012 Temkin Richard 6/09/2009 13:23 Thrust 10 The discussion of RF antennas as Internal Components is specialized to ICRF antennas. For example, the Thrust 10 six page write-up says: “Reliable performance of RF antennas/launchers is needed. Many of the issues concerning the interaction of the near field of the antenna/launcher with the scrape off layer plasma (SOL) are not well understood.” The write-up should also reference other RF launchers, including EC launchers. More work is needed on EC launchers as well as on ICRF launchers. This should be a simple change to write up. 10.013 Temkin Richard 6/09/2009 13:34 Thrust 10 Thrust 10 should identify the advantages of novel concepts for Internal Components, and encourage the development of such components. The one page write-up now says: “Can fabrication techniques guarantee robust PFC and IC designs and acceptably low failure rates?” I would add to this: “Can new, innovative concepts for the ICs reduce the power loading and increase the reliability?” I propose this change since EC launchers are actively pursuing such innovative concepts. One specific innovative concept involves the use of mixtures of microwave modes that can be end fired from a waveguide and steered remotely, thus eliminating the plasma facing mirror. This innovative idea was presented at the Theme 3 Workshop and is mentioned in the full write up of Theme 3. The one page write-up for Thrust 10 should reflect the need for innovative new ideas. 10.014 Youchison Dennis 6/09/2009 14:12 Thrust 10 Is the training/education of test facility operators (test engineers)retained in the 6-pager for both new & existing facilities? 10.015 Buttery Richard 6/09/2009 15:42 Thrust 10 Principal of divide between 10 and 11 seems OK, but practically there are clear overlaps - eg on transients and needs for integrated test facilities in each thrust. Need to draw line more carefully... Should materials part of thrust 10 be merged into a new nuclear+heat materials thrust with 14 - and rest of thrust 10 into 11? >> ONE STRONG THRUST TO RESOLVE MATERIALS. 10.016 Allain Jean-Paul 6/09/2009 16:07 Thrust 10 Many surface response codes used in erosion/re-deposition modeling of PMI effects rely and have used extensively particle-beam (e.g. ion, atomic, etc...) test facilities (e.g. UTIAS, IPP, IIAX, others...). Both in the talk and the 6-pager very little was mentioned on a need to upgrade/integrate/add such facilities in the context of both materials and computational code development. I think we need to be more explicit about the need for such facilities as critical pieces to the PMI effort. 10.017 Wong Clement 6/10/2009 07:49 Thrust 10 Please add W. Wampler to contributor’s list, if not already done to the latest version. 10.018 Wong Clement 6/10/2009 07:51 Thrust 10 Thrust 99 Due to the focus of Thrust 10 (surface materials) and 11 (innovation), together they have missed to emphasize the significant gap on the need for the development of robust high performance and disruption tolerant (both thermal and structural) PFC components. 10.019 Youchison Dennis 6/10/2009 14:02 Thrust 10 An important component of this thrust should be upgrade of existing test facilities to include synergistic testing effects. This may require combinations of existing systems, sharing of diagnostics, the addition of entirely new diagnostics or expanded capabilities, and continued support of existing test stands.